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Miki
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hello,
I have a 90 quattro with 2,3 20v 7A engine (1990). The engine is quite ok but I want to do some small changings on it to get some more hp Smile

Well, I'v read many things regarding to this (also here on Audifans) and seems all forums agrred on a few things how to start tuning if you have an 7A engine.

#1 CAT was removed by the previous owner, so it is done
#2 Last week I bought a tubular manifold I only need time to install
#3 Replace Hit. injectors to Bosch ones
#4 ...

So now I'm working on the #3. I was thinking to buy this kit from 034 Motorsport: http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-injection-solutions-audi-7a-efi-injector-adapter-kit-improved-p-329.html

To tell the truth my first think was to check maybe I can get locally those staff cheaper. The alu adapters will be manufactured here by a local guy so this should be ok. As for the injectors I have some questions, can be some of you have experience already with them or even someone has already a set installed. Do anybody knows what the Bosch number of this fully red injectors is? I found somewhere this number: 0280155759 Is this the one?? If someone has such an injectors, how's the experience, how they work out? Any suggestion?

I'm really open to get some advises according to this, or get any info if you have something to share Wink

What can be #4? Rolling Eyes Smile

Thanks in advance!

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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Pretty sure the red ones are Volvo T5 injectors, rated at 315cc/min at 3 bar. They will run rich. standard injectors are rated for 100-120cc in 20 seconds at the higher fuel pressure of 4 bar

I got the adapters from Ebay Germany from this seller

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/EPYTEC-Shop - no sign of any in the shop just now

Personal opinion is that the 034 kit is overpriced, especially when you add shipping and customs charges

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Miki
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:55 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Mike!

I agree, the price of 034 a bit high, that's why I try to find a different way to get them. I picked up today the adapters from a local manufacturer. The 5 pcs cost me about 20 Euros.

Do you run your 20v with such an injectors? Is the 315cc not too much for this engine? Most seller advise this injectors for turbocharged engines like Volvo T5 as you mentioned. May I ask you to write me down your experience in a few words? Thanks! Smile

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theappliance
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:18 pm Reply with quote Back to top

hello.

I have the 034 injector kit on my 20V coupe quattro. I bought it in the hope that my hitachi injectors needed changing and were the cause of hesitation and flat spots. I thought about getting my original injectors ultrasonically cleaned but decided that they would still be worn just clean and worn.

the 034 kit completely sorted out the hesitation i had and now the engine revs very smoothly all the way to 7000rpm with no noticable dips/pauses. It also seems to have less of the 20V urge I used to get at 4000rpm, i dont think it is slower, best described as it starts lower down and builds more graducally. overall power increase? i dont know but probably not. overall nicer to drive? yes. Very Happy

I think the injectors would work better again with some head work that allows a less restricted air flow. DangerousD1 on this forum has the kit and a flowed head and his car is pretty quick. Smile
 
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Miki
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

That sounds good Smile Actually I expect the same. If I get back the power which are lost due to the old injectors I will be already happy Smile If some comming on top that's even better!

Head works for me like a black hole Smile I read many posts and the german 20v webpage too but to do that I think you need experience. Maybe I will do some fine work on the throttle housing, but for the head porting I need to find someone.

How about a bigger MAF? Like use the one from 2,8l V6? Has anybody tried to do some modification on the air intake? Is it make sence without a new chip?

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Miki
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Is it possible to read something from DangerousD1's car? It sounds also interesting Smile

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theappliance
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

http://www.audifans.net/ftopic-19685-150.html

this is the thread about the cylinder head work. It is long and very interesting, might be better to start on the last page and work backwards as the later pages are where the guy works on the 7A head...

I tried the V6 MAF and to be honest i didnt notice much difference. It certainly doesnt seem any noticable difference but one day i might try the swap back to original and see what it feels like - sometimes you dont notice the subtle improvements until they are gone! Rolling Eyes
 
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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:21 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not running this mod yet. Waiting on the injectors arriving.

I've gone for the grey LS1 injectors

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istoo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I am running the 034 injectors as well and echo appliance comments. it smuch smoother across the board ,used to be a notable kick in power at 4000, it revs much harder after that though.

Next i would be doing a P&P on the throttle body to get the revs to come in a bit earlier Smile the larger bore MAF also helps matters there or should do!

Sorry mike i never got back to you on my injectors, only got the 90 back last week.

tubular manifold has made the single biggest difference i have noted yet, engine starts pulling much earlier in the rev range and the off beat 5 pot noise is much more audible.

I had my car on a trackday last weekend and removed the back seats, boot lining, matts, spare wheel

Hows yours going btw?

I emailled 034 on the chipset, the readout says 91RON which is american RON which like gallons is a different measurement from us, I do believe it will help a bit only if your engine is ready for more fuel though, ie better air intake.

The feedback from the P&P work is nominal gains on the intake, big gains on the exhaust.

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istoo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:31 am Reply with quote Back to top

also to add, My wife drove my 20v at the weekend and put 95 RON fuel in it, I have been using Vpower (99RON). And the difference is very notable, i would say the best performance hike for the car so far has been fuel.

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quatk90
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have 5 No. 7A bosch Injectors for Sale, I can get you the Injector no. tomorrow, was going to fit them to my Coupe but decided against it, you would need the Fuel Rail Adapters and O-Rings. let me know if interested.
 
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Miki
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:35 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks to all of you for the answers! I'm really happy that I found this site Wink Many usefull information!

I spent my last days to investigate the right injectors for this replacement. At night i dream already with Bosch numbers Very Happy So what I found out (please correct me if I'm not right):

0280155931 - (gray) flow rate close to original one
0280150945 - (red top) old style
0280155759 - (red) the one which offered by 034 Motorsport as well 315cc/3bar
0280155831 - (red/orange) Injector for I5 Volvos. 315cc/3bar. Like Mike said and also my local contact told me, that this one has the same specification as the other red one and physicly the same as well.

The good thing is that the Volvo one is more common in Europe this case easier to find and get. I called up one of my friend who has a garage and he can organize me 5pcs for a try (used but cleaned ones). So at the moment my plan is to try this type and we will see Cool

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Miki
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:41 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quatk90 wrote:
I have 5 No. 7A bosch Injectors for Sale, I can get you the Injector no. tomorrow, was going to fit them to my Coupe but decided against it, you would need the Fuel Rail Adapters and O-Rings. let me know if interested.

Please send me the details (Bosch number, price) can be I'm interested. If not, mightbe my club-mate is interested who wants to do the same mod.

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Miki
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

istoo wrote:
also to add, My wife drove my 20v at the weekend and put 95 RON fuel in it, I have been using Vpower (99RON). And the difference is very notable, i would say the best performance hike for the car so far has been fuel.

Do you have still the original ECU? As far as I know this engine was adjusted to 98RON. This was of course the recommendation by Audi to have the best performance. The system can handle 95RON too, but you can feel a little difference. And also the car needs little bit less fuel from 98 or higher RON due to better efficiency.

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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

7a is for 95 Unleaded with the cat.

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istoo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:24 am Reply with quote Back to top

Miki wrote:
istoo wrote:
also to add, My wife drove my 20v at the weekend and put 95 RON fuel in it, I have been using Vpower (99RON). And the difference is very notable, i would say the best performance hike for the car so far has been fuel.

Do you have still the original ECU? As far as I know this engine was adjusted to 98RON. This was of course the recommendation by Audi to have the best performance. The system can handle 95RON too, but you can feel a little difference. And also the car needs little bit less fuel from 98 or higher RON due to better efficiency.


I dont think your right there Miki, I am with Mike here, both the manual and filler cap states 95 RON. I doubt the availability of 98 RON, 20 years ago. BMW do quote there bhp figures from the early 2000's based on 98 RON

Still on original ECU, which ultiamtely all it is going to do is either over fuel. I dont think the ECU upgrade is worthwhile until you have had either head work or cams done. Although there is some sense in me going for the 034 ECU as it is paired with using 034 injectors.

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Miki
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, you're absolutly right guys!! I checked and found out the same, it's set up for 95RON. That's my mistake..
As for a higher RON I still believe that this ECU can handle it. That's the feedback from (nearly) all 20v owner who has tried 98RON or higher one and also istoo has the same experience, seems so.
Smoother run, little more power (by feeling), especially on lower rpm. And I can safe 0,5-1 liter petrol on 100Km against 95RON.

As for my 20v upgrade I have to have a longer brake now, because I have a 3 weeks job out of my place. I'v got the brown/orange Volvo injectors, as I mentioned before. I cleaned and checked them up with an ultrasonic cleaning device. I'm 100% sure that this injectors physicly are the same as the red one, and the specification is the same too.

I only need a free weekend to install the tubular manifold and this injectors and then... Very Happy

Btw, we expect some snow for this weekend Wink Cool

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quatk90
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

Bosch Injectors that I have, have the following markings,

0280 155 931

12561462

313546

These are available, were purchased from the original developer before 034 Motorsport got involved.
 
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Miki
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

quatk90 wrote:
Bosch Injectors that I have, have the following markings,

0280 155 931

12561462

313546

These are available, were purchased from the original developer before 034 Motorsport got involved.

Sorry just reply now, but I coudn't visit the site for a while..

So, as for me I already have the injectors. But if you send me in privat message the price what you wanna get for them, I can ask around my 20v friends. Can be somebody interested.

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Miki
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Btw today I had a little snow ride nearby to my home. Fantastic condition with a fantastic car Cool

After all : Razz

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bosigran
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have had these injectors in my 7A for about eighteen months and can echo all the comments above as they do make an improvement. Over the summer I fitted an 034 7A turbo kit and they recccomend these injectors when doing this. I'm going to write a review on this kit when I get the time but being terminally lazy I always have somthing else to do.

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Present cars: 1989 90Q 20V. 2001 S8
Previous cars
1990 90E. Died a horrible death
1995 80 2.0 Sport. Hit a deer. Both car and deer written off. Kept me in venison sarnies for months tho!
1989 CQ 10V. Ebay mistake
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jim1970
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

Out of interest which Volvo are the injectors used on?? and also the adapters that Mike bought from the germans did they come with the rubber O rings???
 
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Miki
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

bosigran wrote:
I have had these injectors in my 7A for about eighteen months and can echo all the comments above as they do make an improvement. Over the summer I fitted an 034 7A turbo kit and they recccomend these injectors when doing this. I'm going to write a review on this kit when I get the time but being terminally lazy I always have somthing else to do.

Thanks for your comment!

I'm (we're) looking forward to read your review on that turbo kit, too. I have not found anybody who has experience with that, so it'd nice to read a few words from that Wink

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Miki
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:48 pm Reply with quote Back to top

jim1970 wrote:
Out of interest which Volvo are the injectors used on?? and also the adapters that Mike bought from the germans did they come with the rubber O rings???

My one is from an 2001 S60 T5. But Volvo have had I5 turbo engines for long time, so I'm sure it was available in different types of Volvo and in different model years as well.

I will buy the O rings in a SKF shop because my adapters manufactured locally therefore I have to arrange by myself.
That's not a big problem if you don't get them with the adapters, and the price of such a rings are also close to nothing.

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Mikes2
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:29 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The adapters didn't come with o-rings. I had to them seperately

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jim1970
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

did you buy normal rubber ones or viton ones, viton is supposed to better in petrol/high heat applications. oh and any idea of size????

i am thinking of going down this route myself, just trying to source the injectors an ideas where from other than used from a breakers yard
 
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Miki
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

jim1970 wrote:
did you buy normal rubber ones or viton ones, viton is supposed to better in petrol/high heat applications. oh and any idea of size????

i am thinking of going down this route myself, just trying to source the injectors an ideas where from other than used from a breakers yard


What I bought are petrol proof. Normal rubber I think not a good idea to use. The size is a good question. Maybe Mike or somebody else can give us some advise for that. I haven't found any information regarding that so I bought different sizes and I will try them. The diameter where the O ring goes is 15mm. I have 15x2,4 mm and 15x3 mm, we will see which one is better.

I tested my used injectors with an ultrasonic cleaning devise and I'm quite happy with the result. The shape of spraying is perfect and the flow rate are equal on all 5.
But if you don't trust in a used one I can recommend you quatk90 (see his comment above). He has a set for sale I think in a really good price.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

15mm is too large.

I used 14x3mm. nitrile and viton are available

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jim1970
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

has anyone tried using an urs4/s6 fuel rail instead of the adapters??? just a thought as the aan engine uses bosch injectors or dare i say it a volvo one
 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Miki wrote:
bosigran wrote:
I have had these injectors in my 7A for about eighteen months and can echo all the comments above as they do make an improvement. Over the summer I fitted an 034 7A turbo kit and they recccomend these injectors when doing this. I'm going to write a review on this kit when I get the time but being terminally lazy I always have somthing else to do.

Thanks for your comment!

I'm (we're) looking forward to read your review on that turbo kit, too. I have not found anybody who has experience with that, so it'd nice to read a few words from that Wink


OK! I'll put something together. Don't hold your breath tho'.

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Present cars: 1989 90Q 20V. 2001 S8
Previous cars
1990 90E. Died a horrible death
1995 80 2.0 Sport. Hit a deer. Both car and deer written off. Kept me in venison sarnies for months tho!
1989 CQ 10V. Ebay mistake
1990 90Q 20V. Ebay bargain
AOC 1503 
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