Audi 90 Quattro Sport - overhaul + upgrades

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Hi all,

It has been a while since I have posted so apologies. I have come to an important decision about the 90 - I am going to get it back on the road. And I have a very strict deadline of when it needs doing - nothing like stress to focus the mind!

It was parked up because of gearbox noise and thumping from the rear diff + excessive oil consumption. So I have managed to source a donor vehicle which seems to be a 2.2 quattro which I am planning to steal the following from:

* gearbox
* rear diff - if mines anything more than a problem with the mounts
* rear sub-frame if its less rusty than mine
* front wings - seems to have new ones on there!
* A whole host of other little parts and switches and windscreen wiper linkage etc

I have kinda made an assumption that the gearbox will be a straight swap but I am guessing most parts are interchangeable?

My main pondery is will the engine overhaul. My basic plan is the head reconditioned and then basic renewing of worn parts in the engine - so big end shells, oil pump rings etc.

However I am pondering doing some performance tweaks:

* TSR Performance to port and polish the head - this is expensive and I seem to remember there was a guru on here who used to do 7a heads - more importantly with a flow meter? Is he still around and still tinkering?
* 034 Motorsport Big Maf and injectors kit
* Vernier pully - because when I last did the cambelt it was impossible to get the timimng bang on
* Some form of ECU type upgrade from 034 motorsport (possibly the RIP chip as its reprogrammable)
* I already have the bag-o-snakes manifold and heat shield to go on the car and it will need the exhaust fixing but is already de-catted.

My distributor is very noisey and I was half tempted with going distributorless but this is mega money - like £1500 so would have to unlock at least 30+ hp to even consider such silly money.

Have any of you guys done much of these things? And any pointers or experiences you guys have and are happy to share with a newbie to tuning the beauty that is the 7A?

Thanks in advance,
Gavin

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

Tony was the head flow specialist. 4v6 is his username. more active on Classic Audi.

the subframe from the donor car may not have mounts for the rear anti roll bar - something to check. Thumping from the rear diff is usually the mounts or the centre propshaft bearing

I fitted a reconditioned head to mine at 250000 miles due to the oil use. Was using a litre every 600 miles or so. I got a bit lucky as someone else had already paid to get the head overhauled and then offered it for sale.

I never touched the bottom end would be inclined to leave alone unless there's something seriously wrong.

I personally think the gains are not worth the expense. Even with flowing, you'll not see 200hp.

Not sure I understand how you had problems with the timing. It's set at 0 degrees with the engine off.

All your other mods are so expensive they're just not worthwhile - you'd be cheaper getting an s2

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Thanks Mikes2 for your comments Smile

I am now some way into this rebuild - the entire drivetrain is out and ready to be sent for overhaul - including getting the prop overhauled.

Aside from the problems with the drivetrain of the car there was always knocking and banging - no matter how many joints and bushes were replaced. Having got the subframes off there are some of their bushes gone and most of the gearbox and diff mounts are shot - so they will all be replaced.

One thing which I am confused by is that the rear wishbones are pressed steel affairs and the fronts are cast jobies - I was under the impression that the rears should be the same? I am guessing someone has had a bush go and the garage has fitted these pressed steel ones? I am guessing sourcing the originals will be like hen's teeth?

The rear subframe is fairly rusty and I have found its rotted through on the rear diff mount (so far!) - It looks like the ARB is just bolted on so maybe I could use the donor cars subframe and drill the holes for the ARB?

It seems that since I have parked the car up things have become even harder to find - GSF no longer list front brakes or most of the bushes? I can get the engine mounts from them - where do you guys get mounts and discs?

I also need rear caliper carriers as there is little left of the ones which came off the car - I am guessing that this will be back to audi?

Sorry for the long waffle but any help is very much appreciated Smile

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

sorry also forgot to ask - where is the ECU? Please dont say that its the shiney bit of box hidden behind everything behind the glove box? I have found one under the rear seat but doesnt look big enough for an ecu?

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:39 pm

Reckon you might be right with "behind the glovebox"
under the seat maybe abs control.
look here it's pretty helpful.

http://www.s2central.net/S2_Schematics/interior_locations.PDF

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

they never fitted cast wishbones to the rear so the pressed steel ones you have are correct.

ecu fits to the rear of the heater duct behind the glovebox

Inexperienced Joined: Oct 10, 2011 Posts: 43

I got all my bushes, head gasket set etc from all german parts Ltd in leeds.
They are very helpful and decent prices.

Tony 4v6 sorted my 7a head a few years ago, did a cracking job too. I'm not sure if he still does the 20v's though due to the sheer amount of work involved.

I'm in the process of getting another bottom end refurbed so I can go for nos on my coupe.

If you need parts try farmerphil. He has a cow shed full of spares.

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Hi,

I have spoken to pete at QuattroCorner who has sorted my first batch of parts. I will speak to some of these other suppliers too - thanks guys.

I have tried to contact a few people about the head work but haven't been too successful and now I am running out of time to get it done so that is unlikely to be done now.

Here is a link with a few disorganised photos of the rebuild:

http://s326.photobucket.com/user/marsh-1st/slideshow/Audi%2090%20Quattro%2020v%20Sport%20Rebuild

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Hi all,

It's all coming along however if I hear those 3 words another time I think I may go insane: No Longer Available!!!!!!!

My current problem is sourcing a clutch kit for the car. I have so much conflicting information - the upshot is that the clutch is NLA for the 7A. Some people have said the 3B clutch will work. Other people have said that the NG clutch will work - which I can get an LUK kit for fairly simply.

Have you guys got any info in this - I am currently stuck without a clutch.

Thanks in advance,
Gavin

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:31 pm

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/clutch-kit/audi-90-89-89q-8a-b3-2-3-e-20v-quattro-170hp_v1501_g479.html

Inexperienced Joined: Oct 10, 2011 Posts: 43

I'm running a 10v clutch on mine without any problems.

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

I'd recommend Sachs

3000 232 001 is the Sachs number you need. If you search on a certain auction site you'll find one

I've got a LUK in mine which got fitted at 215000 miles. I've done about 70k on it with no problems. I only fitted it because I was given it for nothing.

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:50 am

No longer an auction site Mike more shopping mall Rolling Eyes

example;I searched audi 90 quattro and got 23,699 items I then hit the auction tab Laughing

43 items....

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

it would appear that's not the correct number so ignore it.

the only Sachs option is a performance clutch.

you need a 240mm disc and pressure plate

The LUK part is 624 0655 00

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Hmm interesting - I was told by one guy that was for the NG and another guy that was for the 7A also? So with Mike there is now 2 in its favour and one against - looking good!

If that one is the correct I will be a happy man as its a good price compared to all the other options I have found!

Cheers! Smile

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

If it is the right one then it seems this is a good place to buy:

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/AUDI/90/2.3/1991/__/165/624055000/clutch-kit/

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

I got the LUK part from the LUK online catalogue

http://toc.luk-as.de/

For Sachs, you can't buy the kit but you can possibly source the bits individually.

The Sachs clutch disk part number is 1862 809 001
The Sachs pressure plate part is 3082 982 001
Sachs release bearing is 3151 271 937

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 11:59 am

that for an NG it has a 228mm friction plate,7a is 240mm.

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

The buypartsbuy part number is the correct one - but they cant get it - neither can mister-auto. Its doomed. I did find one on ebay for £1468.99 or something like that - but its in stock!! Yeah right!

This is getting beyond a joke...

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:24 pm

this no good then?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-PIECE-CLUTCH-KIT-Audi-90-B3-87-91-2-3-E-20V-quattro-/221303829844?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

That certainly looks promising however I have been trying to contact them all morning and no reply! I also checked the feedback of that ebay seller and its not great so I am giving up on them.

I have found that even when a site says that its in stock it pays to ring as most of them say that the part isnt available - even though the site says it has stock!

My last resort is to send the old stuff to pete at quattrocorner and then he will have a look and, if he has something which will fit he will get me that, if not then send it off for recon. He recons you will not get a 7A clutch anymore. The problem is that I need the clutch and engine in within the week ideally....

Does anyone know for certain if any of the s2 clutches will fit - I am told the earlier s2's had a solid flywheel and so may fit?

Thanks in advance

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

I forgot to mention that I have the Gearbox, Diff and prop back from the gearbox specialist.

The box had new bearings and a reverse syncro - one of the main bearings was worn so much it fell apart as they removed the shaft in the box. The rear diff had 2 carrier bearings and new seals apart from one which was audi only and was something like £260 for the seal alone! The prop and centre bearing were fine and so re-packed with grease.

The are all back in the car and he even etch primed and painted it all up very tidily. Here are some poor photos of the whole project:

http://s326.photobucket.com/user/marsh-1st/library/Audi%2090%20Quattro%2020v%20Sport%20Rebuild

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

Do you need all the clutch or just part of it

Here's a disk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sachs-1862809001-Clutch/dp/B00CQ6KG5U

Release bearing

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sachs-3151271937-Clutch/dp/B004A3DEVU

can't see a pressure plate

or a Borg & Beck kit

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Borg-Beck-3in1-Clutch-Kit-Audi-Coupe-Quattro-2-3i-20V-2309cc-170bhp-89-91-/400300392691?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AAudi|Model%3ACoupe&hash=item5d33c340f3

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Thanks Mikes2 Smile

I could do with the lot - the release bearing is shot and the disc is very low.

I phoned up the ebay BORG&BECK one and low and behold - that one seems to be on back order sir!

I could do with confirming the Amazon one but cannot find any contact info. If it was in stock I think that we can get the rest OE for about £130 or so - which I could just about stretch too.

My mechanic friend is starting to lean towards the same as Mikes2 suggested - we just put the NG clutch in - which I believe has the same size overall just smaller friction disc.

Interestingly I can get 2 different manufacturers clutches from 034 but they work out at around £500!!! forget it!

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

I certainly don't recall recommending fitting the 228mm.

if it was me, I'd buy the release bearing and clutch disc as above.

Then, either re-use the original pressure plate or try and source an alternative one (performance)

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Ok apologies Mikes2 I had it in my head you had said something like that! Tis a funny place up there Sad

Anyway - I have another lead. Still nothing back on the stock of the Amazon parts.

We have made some headway - according to a contact the pressure plate and release bearing are the same for the NG and 7A and possibly others - the only difference is the size of the pressure place - 228 in NG vs 240 in 7A.

This doesnt help much unless I can find a friction disc - I wonder if the solid flywheel s2s had 240 mm friction discs?

Anyway the search goes on.....

Site Moderator Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 9144

No worries - I would only recommend fitting the correct parts unless you can't get anything else

You could go with the Valeo 801827 as mentioned previously by Hoolio.

It's showing as in stock

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

Thanks Mikes2.

That mister-auto part is not in stock- I rang them the other day and they said its on back order.

My mechaninc friend has managed to get the original sachs friction disc and its in the post! According to sachs the pressure plate and release bearing are the same for NG or 7A. So I can get TPS parts for the bearing and pressure plate for about 140+Vat or hopefully get the LUK NG complete kit for 101 inc so I think I will go for the latter and sell the NG clutch or something.

Just waiting to hear availability on the NG LUK kit.....

Audi Nut Joined: Feb 25, 2010 Posts: 94

What a surprise that this is not available:

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/details/AUDI/90/2.3/1991/__/165/624055000/clutch-kit/

TPS it is then!

Thanks very much for all your help with the clutch pain! Smile

Inexperienced Joined: Jul 12, 2009 Posts: 44

really good thread and you are obviously in love with your audi 90 Smile

boy you have gone to town on getting the mechanical bits right. Regard the clutch............................. is that the same clutch that would go into a 1990 coupe Quattro 20V ?........................... cos I need one also