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ukwide
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Hi, hope someone can help. I have a 2.4 v6 C6 4F A6 with just 40k on the clock.

The car has an intermittent fault which involves it not starting. The car turns over but will not fire - yes it's the fuel pump, but tests by Audi, the RAC and the AA all show it's fine and not faulty. if you take out the fuel Pump fuse and connect it to a power supply you hear the fuel pump initialise and the car starts and runs for 3, 4 or 5 days, then go out to start it and nothing!

Audi changed the dash clocks and DIS at great expense to the warranty company, because they said it was faulty but 4 days later whilst away from home it wouldn't start again, the AA came out and checked everything and found if you removed the 20 amp fuse for the fuel pump and connected up a power supply from the fuse to the fuel pump it works, the AA Tech said that shows the fault is somewhere between the ignition key and the fuel pump fuse (left hand side of dash), but I don't know.

RAC and AA have checked the relay for the fuel pump (614) and having cleaned the connectors both pronounced it okay, so probably not the relay, its infuriating because you know the car will be fine and runs well for at least 3 days then its A6 Russian Roulette as to when it will fail.

Anyone any ideas or had similar issues?

Any help would be appreciated, it is due to go back to Audi next week (23rd Sep) so they can have another go at finding the fault, but to be honest I think they're p1ss1ng in the wind and have less of a clue than I do.

Cheers all
 
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daz-the-dogg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Gary, I recently had a similar problem on a 94 80 1.9tdi, not sure if its relevant to your problem though, mine was an intermitent break in a wire from the ecu to the diesel fuel pump, which I managed to trace through and piggy back a wire from the ecu to the pump, so wondering if yours is either a break somewhere from ignition to fuse/relay or ecu to fuse/relay

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
Gary, I recently had a similar problem on a 94 80 1.9tdi, not sure if its relevant to your problem though, mine was an intermitent break in a wire from the ecu to the diesel fuel pump, which I managed to trace through and piggy back a wire from the ecu to the pump, so wondering if yours is either a break somewhere from ignition to fuse/relay or ecu to fuse/relay


Daz, it may well be, it's back in at Audi this weekend I will mention it but currently typical Audi, you suggest something and they look at you like you have two heads! The AA Tech picked up on the fault straightaway and just touched the 20amp fuse for the Fuel Pump with a small piece of wire and touched another fuse with the other end and the FP initialised immediately and the car ran fine for 5 days and then I had to do it last night again....

He also told me to check the oil level because they apparently have an oil sensor which creates the same issue if the oil is low, to stop the car being damaged, so topped up the oil, but it was only 1/4 up the low to full marker on the dip stick, so I wouldn't have thought that was the issue?

Cheers
 
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daz-the-dogg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I know what you mean, they only employ fitters these days who look at a pc screen, and if it tells them the fault is that then that's what they believe. If the fault persists after it comes back could be worth wiring a fused switch into the out put side of the fuse to fp so that if it does go you can flick the switch and have power to the fp

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
I know what you mean, they only employ fitters these days who look at a pc screen, and if it tells them the fault is that then that's what they believe. If the fault persists after it comes back could be worth wiring a fused switch into the out put side of the fuse to fp so that if it does go you can flick the switch and have power to the fp


Daz, you're right, they changed the dash clocks and DIS which cost the warranty people £1400 and said they had cured the issue, not. Prior to this and I'm sure you won't believe it, but it's true, they changed the starter motor saying it was the starter which was intermittent. The RAC rang them and said wrong car, but Audi were adamant it was an intermittent starter.

I went to collect the car and the Fitter went to fetch it and came back, whispered something to the Receptionist and when I challenged him he said the new starter motor was also faulty. So I asked him to take me to my car and he jumped in and tried to start it before I could get in and it wouldn't turn over - DEAD. I then said to him, put your foot on the clutch and try it, so he did, but looked at me again like I had two heads and the car started, see he said it's intermittent! I then told him the A6 (not sure about other models) need you to depress the clutch to start them, his response was 'since when'? - Oh dear!!!!!
 
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daz-the-dogg
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:04 pm Reply with quote Back to top

That's unbelievable, I fix cars, bikes and scooters for people who cant afford dealer prices or who have got p'eed off with the false diagnosis that they've been given, a friend of mine owns a local back street garage who regularly call me for any vag-com work as the snap-on diagnostics they use doesn't always work on VAG cars, last week I had a TT quattro convertible to look at, had a power roof problem, the roof unlocked symbol on the dash stayed on permanently and the windows wouldn't shut, Audi had said that it needed a new roof ecu, I ran vag-com on it but it wouldn't communicate with the roof ecu, which the customer told me Audi had the same problem with, so I did a little investigating into the 2 roof lock sensor mechanisms on the top rail of the windscreen and found that the passenger side roof lock sensor wasn't actually closing the circuit when the roof was shut, fitted a rubber bleed nipple cap onto the lock mechanism on the roof, which pushed the sensor that little bit further when shut and hey presto the roof light went out and the windows closed, job sorted and a happy customer

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:00 am Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
That's unbelievable, I fix cars, bikes and scooters for people who cant afford dealer prices or who have got p'eed off with the false diagnosis that they've been given, a friend of mine owns a local back street garage who regularly call me for any vag-com work as the snap-on diagnostics they use doesn't always work on VAG cars, last week I had a TT quattro convertible to look at, had a power roof problem, the roof unlocked symbol on the dash stayed on permanently and the windows wouldn't shut, Audi had said that it needed a new roof ecu, I ran vag-com on it but it wouldn't communicate with the roof ecu, which the customer told me Audi had the same problem with, so I did a little investigating into the 2 roof lock sensor mechanisms on the top rail of the windscreen and found that the passenger side roof lock sensor wasn't actually closing the circuit when the roof was shut, fitted a rubber bleed nipple cap onto the lock mechanism on the roof, which pushed the sensor that little bit further when shut and hey presto the roof light went out and the windows closed, job sorted and a happy customer


That's atrocious, it makes you wonder why anyone uses a dealer it really does. Mind you my local dealer wanted £2800 to replace the roof on my cabriolet, Northern Car Hoods in Lymm did it for £700 all in!

Well update on the A6, it wouldn't start again this morning so used the wire just like the AA Tech told me and it started just as he said it would having shown me how to do it, but as soon as you remove the wire it dies and won't run, which wasn't what happened last time. He used the wire and once the car was running he removed the wire and the car carried on running, so there is obviously more of an issue than 1st thought.

I suppose another call to the AA is needed?

Rgds
 
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daz-the-dogg
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:29 am Reply with quote Back to top

Gary run a permanent link wire across the fuses, you'll probably find that the feed wire to the fuse has now completely broken

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
Gary run a permanent link wire across the fuses, you'll probably find that the feed wire to the fuse has now completely broken


Daz, I assume this will need an on-off switch or the fuel pump will be running constantly?

Cheers
 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

If you can find a suitably rated fuse that is turned on and off by the ignition no, the other way is to run a wire from the battery to the fuse with a flick switch, make sure you run an inline fuse between the battery and the fuse holder though

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
If you can find a suitably rated fuse that is turned on and off by the ignition no, the other way is to run a wire from the battery to the fuse with a flick switch, make sure you run an inline fuse between the battery and the fuse holder though


Daz,

okay, that sounds easy enough, will have a go and let you know the outcome.

Cheers
 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Gary, be aware though this isn't a permanent fix but will get you mobile until either you or Audi can sort the problem, as long as you use wire that is rated to 20 amps and above a switch rated the same and a 20 amp fuse you shouldn't have any problems

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

daz-the-dogg wrote:
Gary, be aware though this isn't a permanent fix but will get you mobile until either you or Audi can sort the problem, as long as you use wire that is rated to 20 amps and above a switch rated the same and a 20 amp fuse you shouldn't have any problems


Daz, AA been and gone, they jury-rigged a live feed to the relay with a fuse in it, so I have to insert fuse to start and then having finished driving take out fuse to stop fuel pump running, seem to work and will get me back to Salisbury on Friday and the car into Audi Saturday morning.

Cheers
 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Ok mate, least your mobile, they've done as I would have but missed out the switch, which would save taking the fuse out

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GJR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Some thoughts on this issue.

The relay itself could still be faulty - I would replace it to rule it out completely if not yet done.

Arguably, your fuel pump seems to be OK, it is just not getting any juice. Fuel pump is fed from the relay. Normally the relay signal line is not fused, but the relay switch line is, so in your case, either there is no power on the signal line when there should be (so the relay is not switching to "on" mode) or there is no power on the switch line (so the relay is switching to on mode but no juice is flowing) - this should be easily checked - but has to be done when car has the fault to find out which one is missing.. With that information, the next step will become clearer.

Further, I'm quite sure some fault codes will have been logged - get the readout from the dealer, they should be able to get you the codes which you can then check yourselves on the ross-tech website.

Good luck

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:55 am Reply with quote Back to top

GJR wrote:
Some thoughts on this issue.

The relay itself could still be faulty - I would replace it to rule it out completely if not yet done.

Arguably, your fuel pump seems to be OK, it is just not getting any juice. Fuel pump is fed from the relay. Normally the relay signal line is not fused, but the relay switch line is, so in your case, either there is no power on the signal line when there should be (so the relay is not switching to "on" mode) or there is no power on the switch line (so the relay is switching to on mode but no juice is flowing) - this should be easily checked - but has to be done when car has the fault to find out which one is missing.. With that information, the next step will become clearer.

Further, I'm quite sure some fault codes will have been logged - get the readout from the dealer, they should be able to get you the codes which you can then check yourselves on the ross-tech website.

Good luck


Gareth,

Thanks for the info, it makes sense I will ask the dealer to check the relay switching input as a matter of course.

It's a shame the car is playing up because it's stunning otherwise, looks good in white, the light grey leather looks and feels good and with just 40k on the clock drives lovely.

Cheers
 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

I thought I would give you an update on the A6. Audi have changed the plastic holder located under the ECU on the nearside at the rear of the engine bay. Apparently it was corroded and the connections were all rotten (their quote not mine).

They replaced the plastic holder, all the wires leading to the holder and all the relays which were present in the holder in order to ensure every possibly angle has been covered.

The parts have been replaced and all the work carried out to fix the car was completed at no cost to me, which is a bonus and the car has started everytime for the past 5 days, so I'm hoping they have found and cured the problem. I even got the car back washed and clean inside and out, which saved me a couple of hours at the weekend!

Will keep you up to date over the next week or so.

Cheers
 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:13 am Reply with quote Back to top

ukwide wrote:
I thought I would give you an update on the A6. Audi have changed the plastic holder located under the ECU on the nearside at the rear of the engine bay. Apparently it was corroded and the connections were all rotten (their quote not mine).

They replaced the plastic holder, all the wires leading to the holder and all the relays which were present in the holder in order to ensure every possibly angle has been covered.

The parts have been replaced and all the work carried out to fix the car was completed at no cost to me, which is a bonus and the car has started everytime for the past 5 days, so I'm hoping they have found and cured the problem. I even got the car back washed and clean inside and out, which saved me a couple of hours at the weekend!

Will keep you up to date over the next week or so.

Cheers


Hi All,

Well it's been a week since the A6 came out of Audi Salisbury and it's started everytime, so it looks like they have finally found and fixed the problem.

The car is now going to get the full treatment, been holding off with the thought the dealer was getting it back, but now I can go ahead and heap some TLC on the car, not that it needs much everything from inside out is near showroom perfect..

Have a great weekend all.

Cheers
 
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GJR
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:14 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Great news Very Happy

Is this "perishing" of this junction box something all C6 A6 will suffer from Question

Better start saving just in case....

Good luck

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:40 am Reply with quote Back to top

GJR wrote:
Great news Very Happy

Is this "perishing" of this junction box something all C6 A6 will suffer from Question

Better start saving just in case....

Good luck


Hi Gareth,

By way of an update, the car as performed perfectly since Audi replaced the parts mentioned (11 days, usually only starts for 3 then refuases to start). Audi did say it was a fault they hadn't had many of, but couldn't explain why it had happened, but the underneath was pretty badly perished.

The parts were £145.00 and labour was about £450.00 it maybe a fix which a competent DIYer can do if the parts are availble through someone like GSF etc!

Cheers
 
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ukwide
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:11 am Reply with quote Back to top

ukwide wrote:
ukwide wrote:
I thought I would give you an update on the A6. Audi have changed the plastic holder located under the ECU on the nearside at the rear of the engine bay. Apparently it was corroded and the connections were all rotten (their quote not mine).

They replaced the plastic holder, all the wires leading to the holder and all the relays which were present in the holder in order to ensure every possibly angle has been covered.

The parts have been replaced and all the work carried out to fix the car was completed at no cost to me, which is a bonus and the car has started everytime for the past 5 days, so I'm hoping they have found and cured the problem. I even got the car back washed and clean inside and out, which saved me a couple of hours at the weekend!

Will keep you up to date over the next week or so.

Cheers


Hi All,

Well it's been a week since the A6 came out of Audi Salisbury and it's started everytime, so it looks like they have finally found and fixed the problem.

The car is now going to get the full treatment, been holding off with the thought the dealer was getting it back, but now I can go ahead and heap some TLC on the car, not that it needs much everything from inside out is near showroom perfect..

Have a great weekend all.

Cheers


Well its been over 2 weeks since the car came out of Audi and its performed impeccably so must assume its finally fixed, no more worries.

Cheers
 
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