Supercharger project begins........

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:44 pm

Well it's been 2 years in the planning and finally after reading numerous books and trawling the internet on every custom build on the planet I felt it was time to start the shopping list. One of the key issues here is cost and I'm damned if I'm spending more than £600 - yep you read right!! Tell Me

I'll try and keep a sort of progress diary but expect ropey camera phone pictures Confused

.

I've done my homework on what I can and can't do with the V6 and how far I can take things. I've chosen supercharging over turbocharging for several reasons; 1. It's cheaper Laughing

, 2. no extreme heat stresses, 3. I can easily remove the system.

The system is based upon the Eaton M45 supercharger suitable according to Eaton for engines from 1.0 to 3.0 litres. An Eaton M62 supercharger would be more suitable as its designed for cars with 2.5 to 4.0 litre engines and can flow the same or more air at a lower boost pressure but again cost and availability is an issue.
The m45 is widely available on Ebay for around £120 with only delivery mileage (often removed for the J,Cooper works upgrade). The m62 is rarely to be found often from written-off mercedes 3.2 kompressor models with unknown mileage.

Using the M45 charger the specs are as follows:

Running at 7.2psi boost at 5500rpm

max. power of 260bhp

Intercooled to keep compression ratio of 10.3:1

165cc injectors to be replaced by 315cc injectors

Fueling by MAF signal piggyback computer.

My shopping list is..........

Eaton M45 supercharger from Mini Copper S....bought for £89inc.
Fuel computer...............................................bought for £73inc (self build kit)
315cc 5.0l Ford Mustang injectors
Fabricated brackets
Idler pulleys + mounts
Samco hose pieces and joiners
Audi S2 intercooler.........................................offers??
Audi S2 crossmember.....................................bought for £35
Diverter/bypass/blow off valve
Audi 6 rib belt from V6/V8 range
Boost gauge
Air/fuel ratio gauge.........................................already installed
cooler grade spark plugs

I've got some head scratching to do now I've got the charger as I need to visualise a bracket arrangement to hold the charger off the right cylinder bank once the airbox has been removed.......... Rolling Eyes

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:13 am

I've got an ABY intercooler for sale Cool

(better than the 3B version)

Pm me an offer

Jas
Cool

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:30 am

Good luck chap,

makes my throtlle body mod look a bit er.........pathetic really.

keep us posted.

Nick

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:43 am

Ooohh yes.

This sounds wicked.

good luck fast.

The injectors you should look for are in volvo turbos as they have good high flowing injectors, there are tons of them in scrappers.

the code on the bosch injectors is 0280150804 and they are rated at 33.3 Lb/Hr you should be able to get 5 - 6 for £30. and getting them cleaned should be about £5 each. Much cheaper than buying a set of new ones.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:21 am

Good luck mate, sounds good.
Keep us posted !

Paul.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:56 am

Unfortunately I can't use the Volvo 280150804 injectors as they're low impedance, it's very difficult trying to find high impedance injectors like Audi use in Europe. Saab and Audi are the only turbocharged cars that seem to use them, Saab 2.3T uses something like a 356cc hi-imp injector but that's a little on the high side and could cause problems with fueling at idle. The Ford Cosworth range use low impedance injectors also which is a shame as they are in abundance. The Audi S2 3B injectors at 300cc would be okay but owners want silly money for them plus they get sold in sets of 5 obviously which is no good as I want six Sad

. The Mustang 315cc injectors are high impedance and in plentiful supply in the US and also go for a good price for either 6 or 8 injectors.

I could of gone for an additional injector controller using two injectors (lo or hi impedance useage) but it would of meant mounting them before the throttle body which is totally correct to allow the airflow to mix with the fuel before the mixture enters the chambers BUT the 2.8 V6 has a complex cross-flow variable length intake manifold that could cause problems with fuel distribution and fuel sticking to the manifold walls increasing fuel consumption. I opted to keep the direct injection of the stock system but with larger injectors and a fuel computer that can remap the fueling curve:) .

Jas...PM sent.

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:03 pm

I thought you might be able to run low impeadance.

Here is a comprehensive list of injectors and flow rates if you need it http://www.wolfems.com.au/support/injectorflow

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:15 pm

No, can't run lo imp injectors the Audi ECU on the V6 runs 12-16 ohms sequential injection rather than peak and hold low imp of 2-4 ohms.

Wanna see my injector list..... Razz

http://www.telusplanet.net/%7Echichm/tech/injectors.pdf

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:47 pm

It's official Fast's is longer than mine Laughing

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:25 pm

Okay, just a teaser pic of what a reputable tuner in the States did for the later 30v (5valve per cylinderV6) 2.8. This shows virtually how my system will look like with the charger hanging (supported) off the right cylinder bank. This system used no intercooling. The recirculating valve can be seen in the pipework.

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:42 am

Fast,

I was following this thread with great interest, as I have finshed all my current projects and am greatly in need of another. Smile

I just received a phone call from a friend who can get me an Eaton M45 FOC. Is there anything else that the Mini S gives up from the upgrade that would prove useful? It appears I can get pretty much anything I need, its all going to be binned!!! Shocked

Plus, what's the latest with the injectors, have you made your mind up yet?

Camped on the site Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 347

mmm yum yum now thats wot a under bonnet pic shound look like,hope it all works out keep us all posted

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:20 pm

Sounds cool to me mate Where abouts are you cos I'd love to come see how you do this as i've been told it can't be done so if you do it I'm gonna join the blown club and crack on!?!?!

Audi Nut Joined: Jul 05, 2004 Posts: 87 Location: Carlisle

It would be esier to fit progressive NOZ, and wont the V8 engine fit?
Im sure it would go in the Avant there is loads of room.

Camped on the site Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 347

wot more can we all say about it but I WANT ONE,AND WANT IT NOW,

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:17 pm

dribble

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:14 pm

Looking forward to seeing how this pans out, sounds cool!

Camped on the site Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 347

i will double that dribble dribble cant wait

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:28 pm

TK, The M45 supercharger is the only component that will be required, I have no information on what the injectors are and maybe it would be worth grabbing the mating manifold parts and intercooling pipework, maybe even the intercooler?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as progress goes, I've test fitted the supercharger in a position I'm satisfied with, with the pulley snout aligned to the accessory pulleys. Unfortunately I cannot use the rear inlet as it is tight up against the wheel well so I've cut a 3" hole in the top of the supercharger air supply casting and bonded a 3" stainless pipe to it so I can use a 90 degree samco hose to connect onto the MAF/induction pipe/cone filter assembly.

I've also picked up a laser-cut adapter outlet plate from a chap that made a batch of adapter plates for the Mini M45. I've fabricated a 3" pipe to the plate (it had a 3" hole laser cut for such a pipe).

The S2 ABY intercooler has had a makeover and looks good in a new coat of Hamerite black stonechip paint Smile

. The S2 3B crossmember intercooler mount has had a nice repaint in Laser red but the spot welded mouting flange on the crossmember had to be adapted to work with the ABY intercooler (ABY intercooler is larger than the 3B so requires the appropriate crossmember but this problem is easily overcome with a drill and a few tack welds Smile

)
One major hangup is that in order to use the S2 intercooler crossmember mount there is the problem that the V6 already has a tubular crossmember that is used to hold the radiator in place. The problems are that the existing V6 crossmember is required to hold the V6 rad in place so it's gotta stay but luckily the S2 crossmember can still be used as the two do not interfere with each other but they do share a few mounting positions but this only means that the crossmember is pushed out by a few millimeters or so. Another problem is a more tricky one in that the V6 rad runs the full width of the frontal area between the headlights from near floorpan level up to the bonnet and this results in very little room for intercooling piping to run from front mounted intercooler back into the engine bay, a way of sorting this is to move the rad 20-30mm to the left of the engine. This will need to be looked at in closer detail when the time comes.

The supercharger will be mounted via a combination of a square tubular support frame mounted to the right engine mount and a support beam coming off the right cylinder, this will also hold two idler pulleys to direct the belt off of the power steering pump and alternator and to keep a good degree of belt wrap on the supercharger pulley.

I have a choice of approx 14 belts in 6-rib that Audi made for its V6 and V8 engines all different lengths so by spacing the idler pulleys and supercharger, one of those should do the job.

Latest purchases include a S3 diverter valve and a very nice cone filter, I would like to keep the airbox but there is no room Confused

.

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:52 am

I think I can safely say "Good work Fast" you seem to have the measure of this project. I'll see what parts I can get from the Mini, I don't know exactly what they strip out in the upgrade.
Look forward to your next Post Cool

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:32 pm

Okay I've taken some digi-photos of progress so far Yell

the bad news is I've had to use my mobile to take them as my elderly digital camera has earned it's bus pass to the Science Museum Sigh

Pic1

This is the Eaton M45 supercharger viewed from the top, as you can see I've fabricated a 3" inlet pipe, to this will attach a 90 degree flex pipe to the MAF.

Pic2

This is the outlet side of the M45, you can see the same 3" pipe but this time bonded to a nice laser cut manifold. The outlet will go to the intercooler but before it does, the diverter valve and piping will be plumbed in, taking the excess boost pressure at idle and throttle lift-off to the inlet of the supercharger.

The brains of the installation! basically known as a "piggyback ecu" to be used with larger fuel injectors. It intercepts the MAF signal so fooling the engine's ECU into thinking that there is either less or more air entering the engine and so fuel curves can be manipulated.

The unit was bought as a DIY kit from Australia, there is the main "Digital Fuel Adjuster" unit and the secondary "Hand controller" with which up to 127 points on the fuel curve can be adjusted, once the unit has been programmed satisfactory the hand controller can be unplugged. I should invest in a wideband O2 reader nearer the tuning time.

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:17 pm

Ok, You got me seriously worried for a minute, Nervous

I thought my Supercharger had a different inlet/outlet, turns out I was just spinning the pully the wrong way Embarassed

Anyway just to check, because your fabricated inlet pipe is pointing upwards, is my supercharger the same, It does say Eaton M45 on the box...

[img]
http://www.audifans.net/modules/Gallery/albums/TK/Photo_0136.sized.jpg[/img]

Did you cut the original inlet pipe off to be able to fit your own?

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:46 pm

Missed one Sad

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:32 pm

Yep, you have the same Mini Cooper S, Eaton M45 supercharger.
Smile

The only parts I have cut off so far is the bracket on the rear under the inlet, I have sawn the two legs off in order to fit the sc into the engine bay. I also had to cut and drill out a hole to fit my inlet pipe - not a nice job since aluminium particles go everywhere. I tried to dismantle the charger so I could remove the coated rotors so they wouldn't get scratched but there are a lot of close tolerance interference fits on the sc assembly and there was no way it was coming apart so I had to cut the hole with the rotors in situ, real important to blast every bit of aluminium out of the sc and to thoroughly wash it afterwards!

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:37 pm

Thats all right I have an air compressor, I can blast them to Kingdom come Laughing

So glad I have the right bits Smile

Once you have fitted it, what are you doing about the "dare I say it" Inssurance company Evil or Very Mad

Do you need the work signed off and a certificate?

Thing is I'm going ahead with this project but I'm going to do it on another motor, clean it all up and then probably do a swap. So I have plenty of time on my hands

Cheers for the pics by the way, definatly helped me visualise it all Very Happy

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:35 pm

With most of the insurance companies you just declare all known modifications, most insurers wouldn't know an induction kit from a supercharger kit, I can guess that there may be "levels"; most insurers know of aftermarket performance exhausts, brakes and alloy wheels along with bodykits but it's a vague and grey area. All you can do is list the most visible upgrades.

A friend of mine recently bought a Golf Gti with every performance item you can fit to the chassis and engine, the bodywork is standard Gti with 14" rims, he tried to list every known modification he could find in the receipts (as long as your arm!) and his insurer just figured yes the car has modifications and added the standard multiplier which wasn't too steep all things considered such as a long no-claims bonus and being 25+ years of age.

TK, what motor are you thinking of using with the 'charger?

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 am

I thought as much, I didn't think there could be a way of them actually working out a specific price for each said upgrade.

Back to the motor, I'm still not sure, I need to sort a few things out first. My general plan is to buy a written off CQ 2.6 or 2.8 and then transplant the four wheel drive system as well as the engine and gear box, but not before it has been completly stripped down and re-built, ported and polished, SC etc etc.

Don't get me wrong its a long project, I know, but its what I need right now.

I haven't made any posts regarding the transplant of a four wheel drive system yet or about the car I need, but this is the wrong thread I shall sort all that closer to the time. Smile

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:13 am

Anything is possible. But it's NOT that easy to do the transplant.......

Buying another car as a basis, as opposed to a donor may be another option.

Fast, will this be done for October?

If so, are you a club member? There's a rolling road session in the planning that may look interesting..........

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:24 pm

I have no idea what you two are talking about but i really want to see the end result... any chance of an idea as to how much this will cost? time etc... for us idiots with little mechanical knowledge what would a garage charde for this do you think?

oh yes... dribble

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:35 pm

Yay, nice to see my old intercooler being put to good use in a great project.
Keep it up Si mate, well impressed.

Jas